While the massive Chabad-Lubavitch PR machine continues to pump out the propaganda, broadcasting the message that they are the saviors of Yiddishkeit and Judaism around the world, and have some success duping the naive and unknowing (even some leaders who should know better), behind the glitz and out of the spotlight they are dealing with massive problems, especially among their Lubavitch from birth segment.
A good look at it can be gleaned from a recent post by a Lubavitch insider, and follow-up comments at one of their most prominent websites.
Of course, other groups have challenges as well, but sometimes we need a reminder that the grass is not necessarily greener on the other side.
May we merit the fulfillment of our davening request וטהר לבנו לעבדך באמת.
I'm not sure that Rabbi Hecht's article proves your contention there's a wide spread dropout problem in Chabad, but it's encouraging that he's not the typical Lubavicher who thinks or at least professes that everything is perfect in Crown Heights. Frankly I don't hold out much hope until someone within Chabad has the guts to finally accept that their entire movement is just a PR stunt and the Rebbe was a fraud. Good luck with that.
ReplyDeleteThere are two things as I see it.
ReplyDeleteFirstly, Lubavitchers have a different theology than we do, upon which much of their behavior is based. I would not describe such things as a stunt and a fraud, rather than a difference of opinion and practice.
A separate issue is in cases where practice is not in line with professed ideals.
Very important point about the two separate issues but I think both contribute to the problems within Chabbad.
DeleteI don't think we need to resort to semantics. The simple fact is that Lubavichers will have to face the truth that they were duped by the Rebbe and his sycophants,and this is an impossible pill for any of them to swallow. As I've mentioned I used to be a follower of Rabbi Miller but when I learned certain things about him I moved on.Hashem expects us to use the truth as our guideline but Ruba deruba can't deal with the reality that their icons had feet of clay.
ReplyDeleteWhat bothered you about Rabbi Miller? (In a general way.
DeleteYou don't have to be very specific if you don't want.)
PS Would just like to point out that it makes no sense for you to refer to your previous posts "as I've mentioned" if you post anonymously and don't sign off with any pseudonym
LB
You're correct LB on your second point, but Mr. L knows who I am. As for my criticism of Rabbi Miller I'll gladly explain. I was initially drawn to Rabbi Miller because he was a tremendous Baal Mussar. Unfortunately, as I learned more about him I found several troubling issues. For one, he supported Chabad. For another he was anti YU. Don't get me wrong, I consider him a great man, but he was flawed and doesn't deserve the adulation he's been given. By the way I welcome any and all responses to my posts. Mr. L knows that I don't back down from any position I take because I don't shoot from the hip. Rather I'm extremely careful when I write things because I'm all too familiar with the consequences of Loshon Hora
DeleteIn short I think Mr. Anonymous is clarifying that he did not mean to say that he discovered some derogatory or negative things about R Miller, but rather that R Miller's opinions don't fit with his.
DeleteThank you Old Litwak that's exactly what I meant to say. Too often substantive discussions are ended because someone quotes what he considers to be an unassailable source. I don't believe that anyone's positions are beyond being scrutinized. As I mentioned in a recent post I challenged a Lubavicher to teach me the Sicha in which the Rebbe "proves" that no Jew will be left behind at the final redemption. He started explaining it to me last Shabbos. Bli Neder when he finishes I'll give a report.
DeleteThank you Mr. Anonymous for clarifying. Years ago as a bochur I was a somewhat casual listener to Rabbi Avigdor Miller and I found over time that I have been profoundly influenced by him. His tolerance of Chabad always did bother me but I subconsciously explained it away. As for his being anti YU... let me just say that that never bothered me at all.
DeleteIn summary I'm relieved that there was no "dirt" on him but rather seems to be a question of disagreeing with his opinions.
LB
I'm gratified that the members of this group can discuss matters in a civil fashion. That' a far cry from what we find in the various Orthodox publications where no one misses a chance to vilify anyone who disagrees with his position. As for LB'S statement that he wasn't bothered by Rabbi Miller's anti YU stance, let me say the following. Last year a prominent "Yeshivish" publicly proclaimed that he was boycotting the Siyum Hashas as a protest against Rabbi Hershel Schachter's presence. Rabbi Miller was an influencer and therefore when he ridiculed Torah U'Mada it was seen as a license by some to follow suit.(FYI I'm not a YU alumnus) Currently there are a number of Rabbis who publicly call out other Rabbis who don't meet their standards of piety, and they'll often cite Rabbi Miller as their model in doing so. Suffice it to say, Rav Moshe never put down any observant Jew.
ReplyDeleteI previously mentioned that a Lubavicher is teaching me the Sichah which proves that all Jews will be redeemed when Moshiach comes. He sent me a link to an article which "proves" that all Jews have a share of Olam Habo. I think it's Kefirah but I'd like to hear what the Chevra thinks. Go to www.chabad.org/library/article_CDO/aid/2312388/Jewish/Chapter-5-who-will-Rise.htm
ReplyDeleteMy apology the word who has a capital W and the word will also has capital W.
ReplyDeleteOn a related subject, what's the group's opinion of the Rebbe's campaign to have people celebrate siyumim during each of the 9 days(except Tisha Bav) I'm writing this on Motzei Shabbos and Rabbi Hecht is making a Siyum on the radio.
ReplyDelete