How many were actually there this year? From where? What type of Jews? The best, most detailed report I have seen, with statistics from the Uman City Council Press Service, is here. That seems to be the last word on the subject, at least in English, AFAIK.
Elsewhere, different figures can be seen.
Some would like you to believe that over fifty thousand men attended. They would probably also like you to believe that it is a growing phenomenon, rather than one that has leveled off, or even perhaps declined.
On the other hand, Ukrainian sites, which have good local sources on their home turf, as well as government connections, have reported just a bit more than twenty five thousand, a much smaller number. For example, this report at Kyiv Post, which also has nice photos and video coverage.
Based on the above (as well as other sources, e.g. food statistics in Meir K.'s video), and the fact that the higher numbers were pre-Rosh Hashanah projections, while the lower ones were issued later, after the new year had arrived, it appears quite definitely that the smaller figures are the accurate ones.
So yes, it is a significant event, but no, 'everyone' is not going there, not at all.
Also interesting is the background of the visitors. I recall seeing in the past (IIRC) that like 80% of the visitors were from ארץ ישראל. It also appears that a significant portion of the visitors are from the Sephardic/Edot Hamizrach world as well.
To get a good idea of what goes on ערב ר"ה at the actual ציון (as opposed to further away, in the streets or elsewhere, which other coverage often focuses on), this page has good, extensive video coverage.
May we merit the kiyum of our tefillos to הקב"ה for וטהר לבנו לעבדך באמת.
Hopefully. Becuase the rampant depravity there certainly gets worse every year, as we see clips of bars, disco and complete prikas ol
ReplyDeleteI have noticed is that Uman has become popular among (formerly) non Chassidim. Especially among the younger hip crowd.
Since there is no living 'Breslover Rebbe' today, there seems to be a matzav of איש הישר בעיניו יעשה there, as in Chabad-Lubavitch.
ReplyDeleteNevertheless, I think there are sincere people too, new seekers as well as old believers. It is a complex situation. However, for people to spread lies, claiming that there were tens of thousands more people there than there actually were is disgraceful, and I think R. Nachman himself would strongly condemn such sheker.
You're concerned about lies regarding the amount of people that actually went to Uman but not concerned about lies such as in the comment above stating that there is rampant depravity taking place there!?
DeleteHave you been there to know the matzav from up close? I have not. :)
Deleteמלקין על לא טובה השמועה
DeleteI side with Mr L. here.
DeleteEven if only a tiny amount of the guests are engaging in questionable behavior, then no ehrliche Yid should take part in such a pilgrimage. Stay far away.
The sheer amount of rumors and videos of illicit activity in Uman ,confirms that there is indeed a not insignificant amount of such behavior taking place. At best, there is enough evidence to at least strongly suspect that there is truth to these rumors. We don't need eidim.
Even if you were actually there, BFG, and can report that you did not see all this , that does not mean it is not taking place. You were probably in a shul (hopefully!), far from such action.
On principal, us Litvaks (and most others as well) are opposed to the entire idea of spending Rosh Hashanah in Uman, even if it is all squeaky clean. In Breslov Philosophy Rosh Hashanah is a happy jouyous- even frivolous- time. For us it is somber time.
If I somehow got stuck in Uman for R"H CH"V I would daven B'yechidus and not even venture out of my lodgings for the whole Y"T.
Whether I have been there or not is irrelevant. The question is why would try dispel a lie about the overinflated amount of people that go but allow lies about there being rampant depravity to be propagated on your blog?
ReplyDeleteAnd the answer is yes, I have been there.
I have heard/read multiple times, over years, allegations of improper activities in Uman. In הלכה persistent reports can have some credibility, under certain conditions.
DeleteOn the other hand, I am allowing you to question and dispute that comment here.
Anyway, the question is what "rampant depravity" means. Let's say there were 30,000 visitors to Uman one Rosh Hashanah. Let's say that two hundred engaged in improper activity. That would be less than one percent, a very small percentage. But, on the other hand, two hundred is not an insignificant number.
Another thing - I will assume that improper activities take place on the margins, let's say away from the main frum area. So many of the people that go there בתמימות may not be aware of them.
Maybe you can tell us about your experiences in Uman. How many times were you there?