Therefore it is quite timely to share some shas related tidbits from Maran Sar HaTorah, Rav Chaim Kanievsky shlit"a, adapted from a publication from ארצנו הקדושה (note: these are general ideas, some of which may be more relevant for ארץ ישראל. Of course everything must be done with proper deliberation, שיקול הדעת, before applying them, lest they ח"ו be applied inappropriately, leading to a situation of possible יצא שכרו בהפסדו ר"ל).
Question: From what age should youngsters be encouraged to go through all of Shas?
Response: מו"ר ר' מיכל יהודה ליפקוביץ זצ"ל said in the name of the Chazon Ish, that by בר מצוה shas must be completed.
Question: Is that not in the category of תפסת מרובה לא תפסת (if you try to seize too much, you will not succeed, whereas if you try to seize less you will)?
Response: It is not meant to know the entire shas by then, but just to go through it. I too learned shas with my sons by the age of Bar Mitzvah.
Question: If the child is saying it (gemara) without understanding, or, say with someone older, that is, let's say traveling, and wants to take advantage of the time, is there an ענין to recite pages of gemara without understanding at all?
Response: Surely. The gemara שבת סג says ליגמר איניש והדר ליסבר ואף דלא ידע מאי קאמר, אף שלא יודע כלום (a person should learn - recite Torah - and later seek to understand, explain it, even if he does not know what he is saying at first, even if he doesn't understand at all).
Question: Did you also finish shas with your father by your bar mitzvah?
Response: No, my father learned with me the מסכתות that I wanted to learn.
Question: At what age did you first make a siyum hashas.
Response: At sixteen.
Question: Rav Aharon Leib Steinman זצ"ל related that R. Schneur Zalman of Liadi, before writing his Shulchan Aruch, sat in Mohilev for sixteen hours on the bank of the river Dniester (seemingly should be Dnieper) and reviewed Shas in his mind. So the question was raised, was it not related that the Gaon of Vilna learned the entire Shas every month? Why did it take the GRA longer to learn shas?
Response: The first story was a case בהרהור (in thought), such a thing is possible. In the GRA case he learned shas inside (with a sefer).
Question: How long should it take to go through all of shas in thought (במחשבה)?
Response: Half an hour (I think).
Question: If someone has a daf yomi shiur, can he still make a siyum even if he did not learn through all of shas (he sat and listened to the shiur, not necessarily saying all the words of the gemara)?
Response: One can make a siyum based on הרהור, according to the GR"A, and surely on listening, where we have a principle of שומע כעונה.
Question: Does learning gemara without Rashi qualify for a siyum too?
Response: Yes. Even in the time of אביי, from where we learn the ענין of celebrating a siyum, learning was without רש"י.
Question: If someone missed a bit of the מסכת, is it still considered a siyum?
Response: It is not קריאת התורה, where missing even a letter holds one back. Only if one misses a complete sugya is it a problem.
There are additional interesting questions and answers there, but I think the above suffice to give you a nice taste, and to whet your appetite. Those that want to see more should click on the photos below.
אשרינו מה טוב חלקנו
אשרינו שיש לנו רבי כזה
סימן טוב ומזל טוב יהא לנו ולכל ישראל אמן
Pretty big chiddushim !
ReplyDeleteI'm writing this on the day after attending the Siyum Hashas at the Meadowlands. It was truly a remarkable event, but I'd like to make some out of the box suggestions which I believe could make it even better. It seems that fostering Achdus within the various strains of Orthodoxy should be as much a priority as celebrating the study of Shas. To that point wouldn't it make sense for the organizers to be more inclusive in their choice of speakers. As it stands now the majority of those who come to the dais are Ashkenazi Yeshivish while the entertainment is largely provided by Chassidim. Don't get me wrong, everyone did a terrific job but I'd like to see and hear more than a smattering of Sephardic Rabbonim(I happen to be Ashkenaz). In addition I think it would be appropriate to have a Russian speaking Rabbi. Both of these groups have outstanding individuals who would represent them beautifully. My key point however is that I'd like the freeze out of YU to end. It's time for the Torah world to recognize that today's YU is not Rabbi Miller and Rabbi Gifter's YU and therefore such luminaries as Rabbi Shechter and Rabbi Willig should be asked to speak. Since I'm a bit of a Kuchleffel, I'd even suggest that we try to make inroads with Chabad perhaps by inviting someone like Avraham Fried to perform or a speaker like Rabbi Shochet. It seems to me that Hashem is sending us a message with the recent spate of anti Semitic attacks to wit, "If My children can't get along with each other, they don't deserve My protection." Looking forward to the readers' feedback.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't expecting to get into that topic here, לכאורה we should really stick to the inyan of the post, but since it was brought up, I will throw out some thoughts.
DeleteIt already was a long event. And some people traveled and waited in traffic for additional long hours. To make it longer, with additional speakers, would not be a simple matter.
Most attendees by far are אשכנזים because most local Yidden and Daf Yomi learners are, that is demographics. So the same for the speakers.
The speakers - there is a difference between the short speakers, who say the siyumim, give greetings, and the longer speakers. The longer talks, labeled "featured address", were given by Rav Frand, Rav Schiff of Antwerp, and Rav Reich, שליט"א. Rav Frand is Yekkish-Litvish, Rav Schiff Chasidish, Rav Reich is sort of in the middle. So that is sort of balanced, it might be said. And the tefillos were both nusach Sfard, the Chasidic Sfard, by the way.
The siyum is a balancing act. Smaller groups, such as Yekkish, Sephardim, Russian speakers, Bukharians, Iranians, Hebrew speakers may not have had an official speaker, but still had people there. Rav Benoliel was honored with saying a hadran.
Some people could have a taynah that it was mostly in English too. In the old days Agudah was much more Yiddish. I understand that there was more Yiddish at Barclays though.
Rav Hershel Schachter and Rav Tendler from RIETS were there, along with others. Rav Hershel Schachter appeared in one video too, as did Rav Aryeh Leibowitz, head of RIETS semicha now. So I think there was movement in regard to that angle.
They need to fill up the stadium, so they have to be sensitive to their core constituency first, and that is their right, since they arranged it. It is a giant undertaking and financial investment as well.
There were some Lubavitchers there actually. R. Y.Y. Jacobson was there, Reb Boteach, even open moshichsten like the NJ Carlebachs. The Neo-Chasidus movement was represented there too by Rebbe Weinberger, Rebbe Judah Mischel, etc.
Re R. Schochet - I guess you mean R. Ezra from CA.
Another thing to keep in mind is that there are multiple other siyumim, of various sizes and flavors, in different places, so those who want something different can choose one of the other events if they wish.
Anyway, B"H it went off safely, and was zoche to siyata dishmaya in terms of decent weather and safety. So I think ב"ה that it was pretty good overall. Im yirtzeh Hashem, Moshiach will come soon and the next one will be even better. :)
מי כעמך ישראל גוי אחד בארץ
Such a great gathering of קדושה, especially at a time of narishkeit and hollelus, is a great accomplishment. :)
Finally, as R. Frand shlit"a said, perfect can be the enemy of good, so we need to keep that in mind.
חזק חזק ונתחזק
Your points are well taken but I would question one thing you said. I think that of the three strains of Orthodoxy, Yeshivish, Chassidish and Modern Orthodox, it's the latter who predominate with regard to "doing the daf." This is not to say that their Hasmadah is on a par with the Yeshiva world, but the focus of the gathering is to celebrate those who learn Daf Yomi. When they showed a video of people giving testimonials about how Daf Yomi changed their lives, they were mostly clean shaven. I'm not suggesting that they make the program longer what I'm saying is that they cut down on the some of the standard speakers.
DeleteI don't know if it is true that MO predominate in terms of doing the daf. Perhaps what you are thinking of is that baale batim who are not f/t bnei yeshiva predominate in it, and that may be correct. But those baalei batim are not necessarily MO. They could be MO, they could be otherwise affiliated. Anyway, I don't know if anyone carries around a card or i.d. bracelet saying 'I am MO, Haredim stay away'. ;-)
DeleteInteresting turn the conversation has taken here.
DeleteI'm pleasantly surprised that Chabad had a presence at the siyum. Although it should be noted that the Carlebachs had a Litvishe education (!) and some others were there for tefilin laying operations, it is still heartening to see that in Chabad there is some sentiment of kavod hatorah. They don't usually place great emphasis on learning non penimiyus torah, but that is not officaly the Chabad shitah. The Baal Hatanya published a sefer Hilchos Talmud Torah, aside to his Shulchan Aruch, in order to emphasize the importance of learning.
As far as the Neos many were there but it's not like RMW had a choice; he obviously needed to attend because many of his conregants do the Daf. So we have no proof that he really respected the event, but hopefully he really did.
What I did notice is that some prominent Neos attended but then acted silly about it on their SM posts. it seemed like they were subtly mocking and demeaning the event. For example one wore a silly Uman hat and one wrote smugly that he spent the time there talking to his son about Uman and Rebbe Nachman and then left early. To me it seems that these were subtle pokes of fun at the people who "only" learn gemarah. I am not surprised about this because many of them believe this. But it should be noted that many of the rank and file Neos were indeed very enthusiastic about the siyum.
As far as the speakers I am a little surprised that there wasn't more chassidishe representation. y
Yes Rabbi Shiff spoke but overall there was a Litvishe aura throughout which may have made the Chassidim uncomfortable. I am a strong Litvak but this was a Torah event that had a beautiful presence of sincere chassidishe people.
As far as YU it is just too sad to even discuss since the once great institution has in a short time been transformed into a neo chassidic bastion. There is even a grandson of the gaon R' Dovid Lifshitz, who was the rosh yeshiva at YU, who is affiliated with Shaalavim and yet proudly proclaims to be a Neo on his SM .
In my opinion the freeze on YU should NOT end. True it's not the same but in certain ways YU is worse than ever. More "fargoyisht". They have events featuring topics that are on "the cutting edge of societal evolution" (to borrow an expression from Rush Limbaugh) such as environmentalism וכדומה. The situation of women's egalitarianism goes from bad to worse מדחי אל דחי.
ReplyDeleteQ: What does Rav Yitzchok Elchonon ZT"L have to say about Y.U.
?
A: Why me?
LB
I don't want to get into this, so maybe we can close this tangent shortly. Maybe the comments should even be removed, though in general I try to let people speak out.
ReplyDeleteRIETS is a complicated topic. There are some choshuve people from there that are respected and accepted in the "Yeshivishe velt". There are others that are not. Some of the things you are unhappy with also bother some of the people from there. May Hashem help us all.
I am reminded of something an old YU guy told me in name of a talmid of Rav Pam z"l at Torah Vodaath by name of הרב דר. נחום לאם. He quipped regarding R. Yeruchem Gorelick z"l - 'the only thing Rabbi Gorelick agrees with in this yeshiva is his paycheck'.
RIETS is not the same as YU, although they of course connected. Some of the things you refer to seem to be in the college part of it.
Anyway, don't worry, the differences of opinion in the orthodox/frum world will not disappear overnight, even if we turn the siyum into a weeklong event and let everyone speak. ;-)
It appears that I opened a can of worms by discussing YU. Let me explain, when I mentioned YU I meant its good aspects. As you correctly stated there are some outstanding Rabbonim who have come from YU over the last let's say 30 years and this should be recognized at the Siyum. I think that this would go a long way to ending the stereotype in many Yeshivish people's minds that YU is still Goyish. But there's something I'd like to add which will probably not go over well with some readers of this blog. There's an unstated bias that what the "Yeshivish velt" accepts, is by definition good. Rabbi Miller is considered an icon in the Yeshiva world, but I as well as many within the frum world find many of his statements offensive. When I discovered this blog I was enthused because it seemed that the goal was to promote the truth. I believe that when we're really looking for the truth there can't be any sacred cows, rather we must openly and honestly evaluate the facts(of course within the guidelines of Halacha i.e. no ad hominem attacks) and let the chips fall where they may. If, however, we begin with the assumption that the collective view of the yeshiva world is infallible we can't make such honest evaluations. I agree with you that the differences within Orthodoxy won't disappear overnight, but I believe it's our obligation to do what we can to find common ground, and a good place to start is by acknowledging that the Torah coming from the so called modern orthodox camp is of a high caliber.
DeleteThanks for your comment.
DeleteRe the "Yeshivishe Velt" - there is a Yiddish expression, א וועלט מיט וועלטעליך (I hope I put it down correctly) - that means, AIUI, that the world is a large world made up of smaller worlds. Every person is a world unto themself, an עולם קטן, as the expression goes. The same with "the yeshivishe velt". Every yeshiva is its own velt, its own world, or universe, with its own individuality, uniqueness. Some more than others, okay. Telshe is not Lakewood, is not Mir, is not MYRCB, is not Torah Vodaath, is not Brisk, is not Ponevezh, is not Chevron, is not Slabodka, is not Novhardok, is not Chofetz Chaim, is not Chazon Ish, and on and on. The same in the Chasidic world, Ger is not Satmar, is not Vihznitz, is not Bobov, is not Lubavitch, is not Belz, is not Skver, is not Klausenberg, is not Nadvorna, is not Amshinov, is not Karlin, is not Boston, etc., etc.
As to what "the velt" says - there is an expression 'oilam goilam. The עולם - meaning the המון עם - can be like a גולם.
Re Rav Miller z"l - well, now you should understand why some people are against YU (joke! ;-). Rav Miller was a כהן and a קנאי, and קנאים are not always understood by the hamon am. Also, their statements should studied in the context of when they were they made. He was deliberately provocative at times, and sometimes speakers are like that, even if only to keep their audience awake, as we see in Chazal. It is sort of amazing, how his popularity has grown after his petira, thanks to new publications, the work of תורת אביגדור, and so on.
Anyway, ב"ה we have a variety of רבנים, דרכים, ישיבות, וכו, and people can be mekayem עשה לך רב in more than one way.
Despite my strong opinions posted above, I am maskim that this is not a topic for this particular blog
ReplyDeleteLB
I'll defer to the collective will of the blog and refrain from any further commenting.
DeleteR' Chaim's words here are astonishing; it's almost hard to believe that he said them. But apparently R' Chaim has spoken and he has opened our eyes (although possibly some of this was more applicable in previous, greater, generations). Thank you Mr. L. for bringing this to our attention.
ReplyDeleteRav Wolbe ztz"l believed that every bochur should finish shas (as well as Mishnah Berurah, Chamisha Chumshei Torah and Mesilas Yesharim) aside to the the main learning sedorim (b'iyun).
Lately there has been great movement towards these areas and people are putting greater emphasis on being fluent in areas besides their main sedorim (Dirshu gets some credit but it is mostly a general awareness).
Haven't seen any posts since this last one. Hope that all is well with you. You might be interested in the following. On the last two Zev Brenner radio programs he had a guest named Menachem ben Shimon who considers himself a community activist in Crown Heights. Apparently tyhere have been serious fisticuffs in 770 between the Mishichistas and the "normal" Lubavichers. This fellow called he Mishichistas crazies claiming that they tear up siddurim which write the Rebbe OBM. He's also critical of those who believe that the Rebbe actually still hands out dollars.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the greetings.
ReplyDeleteI try to keep posts on a high level, not just to post סתם to say something. Too much time spent here can take away from regular learning and growing too. I have some ideas, maybe will post again soon, esp. since you seem to be asking for it. ;-)
א גוטען חודש
P.S. The different factions should both accept that Moshiach will be a non-Chasid, as the Alter Rebbe said, and thereby bring שלום. :)