A virtual shtick Lita (piece of Lita - Jewish Torah Lithuania) in Cyberspace.
A proud Litvak sharing a Litvish perspective and hashkafah, in a world where it is often drowned out by louder voices. Louder is not necessarily more correct or better.
Monday, September 2, 2019
Songs of Yearning as Yeshivas Mir Yerushalayim Commences the Zman of Ellul 5779
I'm a bit surprised at your reaction. I see this as another example of chassidus creeping in to the yeshiva world. I once was "טשעפערינג" a chabadsker that they believe that there is a necessity for chassidus to spread to all יידן, "שיפוצו מעיונתיך חוצה", and I asked him what in truth had been accomplished in that regard. Here I am a ביטערע מתנגד, and the entire litvish yeshiva world are misnagdim... He answered me immediately what I hated to admit was a תשובה ניצחת. He told me that he himself had learned as a בחור in Chevron (before the yeshiva moved from Geula). And he remembers well what the shabbos seudos were like. No zmiros everyone rushing to get back to the Gemara. Today he said (this all took place in EY when I was a בחור learning in Yerushalayim) when I pass by the yeshiva on shabbos and I hear the beautiful Zemiros being sung by the bochurim... And you ask me what have we accomplished? נסתמו טענותי Can you imagine Rav Aharon Kotler starting the zman this way? How about Rav Ruderman? Rav Shach? The original Rav Nosson Tzvi Finkel? (Don't make me laugh, especially during Elul) Oy how far have we fallen. LB
למעשה, it seems that it was just a small faculty gathering, with the elderly mashgiach שליט"א leading a bit of singing at the end. לכבוד המשגיח the ראש הישיבה joined in as well. It wasn't like they sat down for a whole seder of niggunim for an hour as Chasidim or neo-Chasidim might.
There is no issur for a Litvak to sing. It is just a question of how much stress to put on music, making sure it does not exceed it's proper place, remaining subordinate to the תורה הקדושה.
This was not a Mirrer kumzitz with a bochur strumming a guitar, don't worry my friend. :)
"Can you imagine Rav Aharon Kotler starting the zman this way? How about Rav Ruderman? Rav Shach? The original Rav Nosson Tzvi Finkel?"
Maybe the Roshei Yeshivos wouldn't be leading singing, but a משגיח, as the Alter of Slabodka was, might at times. He might sing something like וטהר לבנו לעבדך באמת.....of course not אומן אומן ראש השנה. :D
A gutten chodesh un a gut yohr to you zisse Misnaged. :)
I'm sorry but I have to disagree. I could reformulate my paragraph to say: Can you imagine the Alter fun Kelm starting the zman this way? How about the Alter fun Slobodka? Rav Yeruchom Levovitz? Rav Chatzkel Levenstein? (Don't make me laugh especially during Elul) I have heard from a choshuve Lakewood talmid b'sheim Rav Aharon Kotler zatzal that the Alter fun Slobodka didn't sing any Zemiros except Dror Yikra, and not because he was incapable of singing any other zemer, because Rav Aharon was מעיד that דרור יקרא he also couldn't sing... But because of the stanza דעה חכמה לנפשך. I'm not getting the picture of the Alter beginning Elul zman with any sort of niggun... In general it's a chassidishe tendency to consider no occasion complete without singing. By us litvishe we can make it thru an entire shalom zachar with just divrei Torah and no singing. Just because we are sitting together for some purpose isn't automatically מחייב a ניגון. (no need to publish this comment, just want to tell you my two cents) LB
I remember about twenty years ago some bochurim went to visit R Yaakov Galinski ZT"L on a Friday night in Elul. R Yaakov asked (rhetorically) "nu vus zul men tuhn far Eleul ?" Somebody started singing a somber Achas Shoalti thinking that this was appropriate for Elul and everyone joined in. After it was over R Yaakov softly reprimanded everyone that in Europe singing songs kumzitz style was not Elul. He proceeded to give a powerful derasha about Elul. When he finished he commented with a smile "YETZT ken men zingen !"
With respect to Litvaks and singing, there are plenty of Litvishe niggunim, even besides the famous ones from Reb Boruch Ber. Every yeshiva and community had theirs. It is a chasidic stereotype that Litvaks don't sing. They do sing, especially zemiros.What that Lubavitcher told you is a typical Lubavitcher untruth.
The song here is barely a song. I think it is appropriate even for a Litvak in Elul.
I wish I had found this blog sooner. How we could spread the word about it effectively ? (sort of "counter-Lichesheyofutzu"!)
We do not have a high powered formal apparatus and official staff spreading the ideas expressed here, at least not as far as I know. The operating philosophy is, as Koheles says, שלח לחמך על פני המים (see #4 at https://he.wikisource.org/wiki/ביאור:קהלת_יא_א).
I'm a bit surprised at your reaction. I see this as another example of chassidus creeping in to the yeshiva world. I once was "טשעפערינג" a chabadsker that they believe that there is a necessity for chassidus to spread to all יידן, "שיפוצו מעיונתיך חוצה", and I asked him what in truth had been accomplished in that regard. Here I am a ביטערע מתנגד, and the entire litvish yeshiva world are misnagdim... He answered me immediately what I hated to admit was a תשובה ניצחת. He told me that he himself had learned as a בחור in Chevron (before the yeshiva moved from Geula). And he remembers well what the shabbos seudos were like. No zmiros everyone rushing to get back to the Gemara. Today he said (this all took place in EY when I was a בחור learning in Yerushalayim) when I pass by the yeshiva on shabbos and I hear the beautiful Zemiros being sung by the bochurim... And you ask me what have we accomplished?
ReplyDeleteנסתמו טענותי
Can you imagine Rav Aharon Kotler starting the zman this way? How about Rav Ruderman? Rav Shach? The original Rav Nosson Tzvi Finkel? (Don't make me laugh, especially during Elul)
Oy how far have we fallen.
LB
Thanks for the interesting comment.
ReplyDeleteלמעשה, it seems that it was just a small faculty gathering, with the elderly mashgiach שליט"א leading a bit of singing at the end. לכבוד המשגיח the ראש הישיבה joined in as well. It wasn't like they sat down for a whole seder of niggunim for an hour as Chasidim or neo-Chasidim might.
There is no issur for a Litvak to sing. It is just a question of how much stress to put on music, making sure it does not exceed it's proper place, remaining subordinate to the תורה הקדושה.
This was not a Mirrer kumzitz with a bochur strumming a guitar, don't worry my friend. :)
"Can you imagine Rav Aharon Kotler starting the zman this way? How about Rav Ruderman? Rav Shach? The original Rav Nosson Tzvi Finkel?"
Maybe the Roshei Yeshivos wouldn't be leading singing, but a משגיח, as the Alter of Slabodka was, might at times. He might sing something like וטהר לבנו לעבדך באמת.....of course not אומן אומן ראש השנה. :D
A gutten chodesh un a gut yohr to you zisse Misnaged. :)
I'm sorry but I have to disagree. I could reformulate my paragraph to say: Can you imagine the Alter fun Kelm starting the zman this way? How about the Alter fun Slobodka? Rav Yeruchom Levovitz? Rav Chatzkel Levenstein? (Don't make me laugh especially during Elul)
ReplyDeleteI have heard from a choshuve Lakewood talmid b'sheim Rav Aharon Kotler zatzal that the Alter fun Slobodka didn't sing any Zemiros except Dror Yikra, and not because he was incapable of singing any other zemer, because Rav Aharon was מעיד that דרור יקרא he also couldn't sing... But because of the stanza דעה חכמה לנפשך.
I'm not getting the picture of the Alter beginning Elul zman with any sort of niggun...
In general it's a chassidishe tendency to consider no occasion complete without singing. By us litvishe we can make it thru an entire shalom zachar with just divrei Torah and no singing. Just because we are sitting together for some purpose isn't automatically מחייב a ניגון.
(no need to publish this comment, just want to tell you my two cents)
LB
Interesting conversation here !
ReplyDeleteI remember about twenty years ago some bochurim went to visit R Yaakov Galinski ZT"L on a Friday night in Elul. R Yaakov asked (rhetorically) "nu vus zul men tuhn far Eleul ?" Somebody started singing a somber Achas Shoalti thinking that this was appropriate for Elul and everyone joined in. After it was over R Yaakov softly reprimanded everyone that in Europe singing songs kumzitz style was not Elul. He proceeded to give a powerful derasha about Elul. When he finished he commented with a smile "YETZT ken men zingen !"
With respect to Litvaks and singing, there are plenty of Litvishe niggunim, even besides the famous ones from Reb Boruch Ber. Every yeshiva and community had theirs. It is a chasidic stereotype that Litvaks don't sing. They do sing, especially zemiros.What that Lubavitcher told you is a typical Lubavitcher untruth.
The song here is barely a song. I think it is appropriate even for a Litvak in Elul.
I wish I had found this blog sooner. How we could spread the word about it effectively ? (sort of "counter-Lichesheyofutzu"!)
A warm Litvishe welcome to you O.L. ! :)
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing your thoughts.
We do not have a high powered formal apparatus and official staff spreading the ideas expressed here, at least not as far as I know. The operating philosophy is, as Koheles says, שלח לחמך על פני המים (see #4 at https://he.wikisource.org/wiki/ביאור:קהלת_יא_א).